Sorry, visual bug again

Tagged: bug, HDR, reflect

This topic has 12 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 2 months ago by xeon.

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2021-09-21 at 3:28 pm #44940

NaxosCG
Customer

Hello guys,
Sorry but i still get some issues with new release (like the other day).

Please see the screenshot, and a screencast here :
https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZ0uL5ZmiH3qPdBWvQTPFGcm2KgKFxV6gQ7

All was ok, and – of course – the customer wants some changes, but in the midtime i’ve upped several times my Verge3D software.

I’ve upped the applet within my Verge 3D app manager : no problem.
Then i’ve opened the max file, just unhidden one object, then export again in gltf and here it comes : render is dull, white is not white anymore, and reflexion is bad.

What i can see different from before : my 32bits .hdr file used in the scene is converted into 8bits .png file, at least this png is added, i guess it is used now instead of hdr for lighting and reflects.

What did i miss ?

Please see my export settings, and my environment tab.

Any help would be usefull, as my customer is waiting for this.

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"1+1=3... for large values of 1"

2021-09-22 at 7:10 am #44976

Yuri Kovelenov
Staff

Hi,

What Verge3D version was used to create the original application? Because you could download it again just to update your customer’s project, as a quick workaround.

Chief 3D Verger | LinkedIn | Twitter

2021-09-22 at 7:22 am #44978

NaxosCG
Customer

Yuri Kovelenov wrote:

Hi,

What Verge3D version was used to create the original application? Because you could download it again just to update your customer’s project, as a quick workaround.

not sure, but i think it was 3.6.

It is strange, btw, isn’t it ?
Strange that the export creates png 8b to be used in place of existing hdr file ?

"1+1=3... for large values of 1"

2021-09-22 at 9:52 am #44999

Alexander Kovelenov
Staff

Hi Claudio,
We checked in our demos and it appears to be just fine. Can you please send us this HDR image so we can take a look? Alternatively, you can send us the max scene with this map cleared of all models.

Soft8Soft Tech Chief
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2021-09-22 at 1:43 pm #45028

NaxosCG
Customer

Alexander Kovelenov wrote:

Hi Claudio,
We checked in our demos and it appears to be just fine. Can you please send us this HDR image so we can take a look? Alternatively, you can send us the max scene with this map cleared of all models.

Please remind me where i can send you zip, please (sorry i always forgot)

[EDIT] : I’ve sent it with FB messenger, as i can’t post those customer’s files here.

"1+1=3... for large values of 1"

2021-09-29 at 8:55 am #45439

NaxosCG
Customer

[UPDATE]

So as a fast workaround, like you said, i’ve went back to 3.6.1 to make the changes et publish : no problem.
I could see that the 3dsmax exporter does not create the png cropped version of the hdr environment, at all.

As a reminder, 3.8 does create a png 8bits cropped of the hdr envir file, and i’m quite sure it uses it instead of the actual hdr file, so the reflexions / light IBL are wrong and dull.
It is my guess, but i’m not dev.

It is a serial issue here, as i would need 3.8 (to get AO, and safari 15 working), but when i open max file and export them with 3.8 : png as envir. and dull render…

I hope you guys will find the problem, i gave you the full folder via messenger.

"1+1=3... for large values of 1"

2021-09-29 at 9:24 am #45441

Alexander Kovelenov
Staff

Hi Claudio,

It’s possible it’s somehow connected with hardware since we can’t reproduce this lighting issue ourselves (see the screenshot of the scene we get when exported your project with Verge3D 3.8 and 3ds Max 2022).

I propose the following:

1) Please check out your file on other systems (including mobiles).
2) Share the exported project via Verge3D Network and send back to us so we can test on our devices.

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Soft8Soft Tech Chief
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2021-09-29 at 9:34 am #45443

NaxosCG
Customer

Did you see the short video i’ve made in the other forum post ?

I’ll install now 3.8, open max file and export it again, then i’ll give you the published link, if this what you need.

Please read also about the strange 8bits, cropped png file from hdr that is created, and i think is used as IBL / reflexion instead of hdr file.

"1+1=3... for large values of 1"

2021-09-29 at 10:03 am #45447

NaxosCG
Customer

So, 3.8 is installed, i can upgrade the application within the app manager : test ok : nice reflexions / IBL.
In the app folder, the environment file is “environment-ev0.4.hdr”, no png file “environment-ev0.4.png” is present (“folder before export.png”)

I open the max file in 3dsmax 2022. Environment is ok (“environment.png”)
export settings seams ok too (“export settings.png”)

in the folder i get now a cropped 8bits png of the environment (“after export.png”)

and the result is dull and bad…

Here is the link : https://cdn.soft8soft.com/AROAJSY2GOEHMOFUVPIOE:5c0bd316e1/applications/stella-home-Outdoor/stella-homeOutdoor-responsive.html

Help me Obiwan, you’re my only hope

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2021-09-29 at 10:11 am #45452

NaxosCG
Customer

My guess (again) is that for any strange reason the exporter creates a wrong png file to be used as IBL / reflexions, instead of using hdr file…
It did not do that before (3.6.1 at least)…

If you look closely to the reflexions we can see that the png is used.

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2021-09-29 at 3:32 pm #45483

xeon
Customer

Just a few thoughts on how to get around the issue you are having.

1. If you are certain the background is using a “cropped PNG” version of the HDR. I would export the good HDR as a PNG…eliminating the crop and replace the “cropped” file with the new PNG and take a look and see what effects that has.

2. Since your client wants a very controlled look. You might want to add a white cyc. Take a look at the Scooter Demo and its large white ball shape that is the environment. It will allow you to control the reflections in your object, it will control the background to be solid white and if you add a reflection probe you can remove the reflections caused by the HDR image while still using it to light the scene.

Xeon
Route 66 Digital
Interactive Solutions - https://www.r66d.com
Tutorials - https://www.xeons3dlab.com

2021-09-29 at 4:54 pm #45492

NaxosCG
Customer

xeon wrote:

1. If you are certain the background is using a “cropped PNG” version of the HDR. I would export the good HDR as a PNG…eliminating the crop and replace the “cropped” file with the new PNG and take a look and see what effects that has.

It was my first attempt, but as it is resolving the issue for “geometry reflexion” it does not resolve the IBL, nor HDR reflexion : still dull. The PNG i’ve created is 16bits, but acts like if it was 8bits.

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2021-09-29 at 6:15 pm #45498

xeon
Customer

Hi there,
Looking at your latest PNG… you definitely have some odd things happening. Initially I would think you had roughness to high or gray specular color…but since I am sure you don’t have those issue…I curious as to what this might be.

I would start out with a new scene and a simple sphere and see if you can get the enviornment map and the sphere to produce the results you are expecting….if not…then the issue might be a bug.

From my experience using a cyc sphere and a reflection cube map…you would not have the reflection of the HDR in the sphere or the table. See attached.

I also rendered out a basic scene without the reflection cube map and without the cyc.

I am using Blender 2.93 and Verge 3.8. testing on Chrome. 94.

So this may be specific to either your scene or your 3D App/V3D combo.

Regarding the cropping of the image. I tested this in Blender and there is no cropping or resizing of the HDR file. So this may be an issue with your version of V3d.

Attached are four images:
Base scene….this is simple pure metalic sphere, and cubes.
Just wanted to see if I got the muted sphere you have provided in your images.

Scene with reflection cube. I added a reflection cube to the center cube. Also added a cyc. Note: the cyc is the only thing reflected in the items controlled by the reflection cube. EXCEPT When reflecting a reflection.

HDR not reflecting….just another shot showing how to remove the HDR reflection from a scene and just reflect the cyc…in this case a geo sphere.

Reflection cube on blue not purple – this just shows two cubes, one controlled by the refleciton cube…and the other is not. You can see the HDR reflection in the purple cube.

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Xeon
Route 66 Digital
Interactive Solutions - https://www.r66d.com
Tutorials - https://www.xeons3dlab.com
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